Jeff Jones In His Personal Phrases – Bike Snob NYC

Again in 2017 I wrote this:

This made some folks indignant, particularly this one man at Pinkbike who I believe had to enter remedy for awhile, however Jeff Jones of Jones Bikes reached out to inform me that he preferred it. He defined his strategy to bike design. Over time he despatched me an H-Bar, the primary iteration of his SWB Full, and eventually model one of many LWB Full, which I’m nonetheless driving at this time:

The bike trade likes classes, and there are many bike corporations making kind of the identical factor. However there are exceptions. Like Grant Petersen of Rivendell, Jeff Jones has little interest in classes or what the remainder of the trade is doing; he has a transparent thought of what he thinks an excellent bike needs to be, and he makes it. Additionally like Grant, he doesn’t suppose driving bikes needs to be troublesome or difficult or uncomfortable; you shouldn’t must contort your self or practice your physique to adapt to remaining in an aero place for lengthy stretches of time. However in contrast to Grant, whose bikes have a number of pretty particulars and prospers, Jeff isn’t involved with aesthetics–he designs his bikes to experience the way in which he desires them to experience, they give the impression of being the way in which they give the impression of being in consequence, and that’s that. He additionally makes use of fashionable components and requirements like disc brakes and thru-axles, and has even moved into e-bikes. Right here’s a video he despatched me of a gravel stage race he did on an LWB HD/e:

What follows is a condensed model of a prolonged interview I did with Jeff again in January 2020 whereas writing {a magazine} story. We did the interview by telephone (truly I believe it was Skype, however similar distinction), and this can be a transcription of the recording. I’ve edited it for size, changed my questions with headings, and in some cases moved some stuff round for continuity and readability. Remember it’s a dialog so don’t get all hung up on syntax and grammar, and if there are any any errors they’re mine and never Jeff’s.

Thanks for studying!

[Not Jeff Jones]

Rising Up

We just about all had 20 inch bikes as a result of we have been youngsters. After which we might typically experience up and down the road as a result of we lived up on prime of the large hill. So when you went down the hill it was a variety of work to get again. However then once we did go down the hill, we may go on into this huge place referred to as Lake Calavera or Calavera’s Lake. It used to not be as developed as it’s now. There have been coyotes on the market in caves and the lake and a cliff and a quarry and this dam and issues and a dump.

We’d exit and experience on the market and simply go all over. Again then, it was like going throughout some huge desert or one thing. As a result of it was simply–it appeared limitless on the market. We’d go on the market and go for too lengthy after which completely dehydrate and we’re all pushing our bikes again by means of the sand and stuff. Consuming off of neighbors hoses as a result of we are able to’t wait to drink water. That was it.

Later I heard about BMX and I went and signed up and did a few yr and a half of racing after I was 13–twelve or 13 or one thing like that. It was fairly enjoyable. Fairly intense but it surely was good studying, that’s for positive. Going full-speed right into a flip with a bunch of different youngsters the identical age that aren’t afraid of crashing.

After that I bought into freestyle as a result of I used to be sort of bored simply sitting and ready for the race for 30-second races, the place trick driving appeared extra attention-grabbing. So I simply sort of began driving. It was like driving and leaping curbs and simply doing no matter you’re on. They have been like, “That is referred to as avenue model.”

[Zaskar, GT All Terra Catalog, 1992]

Working For GT

I used to be employed as a high quality management inspector-frame finisher. I don’t even bear in mind what it was precisely. However one thing like that. I ended up at first sort of taking on the entire last checks and last steps of constructing the GT Zaskar, as a result of that was the brand new body they have been making, fabricated from aluminum. Earlier than that, that they had solely carried out chromoly BMX. This was the primary mountain bike that they have been going to do there, not less than on the facility in California.

So I aligned hundreds of frames and reamed the seat tubes and threaded the underside brackets and checked each little factor. After which we’d discover issues. It was an excellent studying expertise as a result of each time there was one thing fallacious, I’d get to go off and discover out the entire course of. If the end is tousled, I’ve to go to the finisher. If the welding is tousled, I’m going discuss to the welder. It’s sort of like I bought to be taught every little thing by seeing what goes fallacious in every little thing.

[Straight tube space frame, 2003. Photo: Jones Bikes]

Leaving GT, Leaving California

Sheila and I–my spouse–we began a motorbike store collectively as a result of I believed that may be extra attention-grabbing than working at GT after that lengthy. We did that for some time. Then from there we bought the outlets. That’s once we determined to maneuver out of California. I spotted, effectively I sort of wished to construct frames. I believed, “I labored in bike outlets, I’ve raced bikes, I labored at GT, I’ve owned a motorbike store. The subsequent step is making a motorbike. What else?” So I’m going to make bikes. I used to be simply going to do customized bikes. Customized no matter, regular, how does the client need it, I’ll make it like that and do the conventional issues, you recognize?

After which shortly I began experimenting and making my very own stuff. Hastily I’m driving on my own. In California there are such a lot of folks and there’s a lot happening collectively that the one approach you may suppose is the way in which everybody else is pondering. We’re all driving round with slammed 150-millimeter stems and 23-inch huge bars. Our palms have been killing us. We’re all flipping over and breaking collar bones and we expect it’s the right match.

Anyway, up right here I began constructing my very own stuff and sort of going off on tangents and simply doing what I wished. Then in a short time some folks mentioned, “I need one thing like that.” So after I constructed that for them and I might experiment with every buyer’s permission to develop it slightly additional with completely different fork offsets, seat angles and issues like this. Truss designs, completely different designs there. Finally, fairly shortly it sort of standardized. Like I had one thing that was working, but it surely was simply too costly to promote all people one-at-a-time, handmade bikes. I couldn’t make any cash at it as a result of it will take so lengthy and price a lot materials. If that’s the one solution to become profitable and also you get one bike you’re making for a very long time. That’s after I went to Merlin and mentioned, “Hey, are you able to guys produce a regular measurement of this?” And so they did. In order that they bought me into having some manufacturing frames.

[Merlin-built Spaceframe, 2008, BikeRadar]

Jones Bikes

Jones Bikes began, I believe it was late 2002. So ’03, ’04, ’05… I’ve some 26-inch wheel bikes of my very own–the bikes I used to be constructing for myself–nonetheless hanging round right here. That’s after I went to a straight tube spaceframe after which a curvy tube spaceframe. Then to a single higher leg truss to a double higher leg truss. After which additionally the geometry was altering all alongside on the similar time as a result of I used to be pondering, “Properly, if I’m going to alter this and my palms have been hurting, these hills are so steep, why not simply do that?” Then I’m like, “Wow! Okay.” And we alter it by bringing the handlebars nearer. “However I’m going to have toe overlap. Okay, rake it out, I can try this. I’ll slacken the top angle. Okay I can maintain the path the identical. This can work.”

Then it began coming collectively. I’ve this one 26-inch wheel bike that has all the essential stuff. The fork offset, the slacker seat angle, there’s a lot shorter attain, the upper stack. The curvy-tube area body with the truss fork. That was the one which sort of confirmed me it probably the most. Then I constructed a couple of for purchasers that have been primarily based on this however doing slightly other ways.

One factor I discovered to not do was don’t attempt to make a suspension-corrected fork and anticipate it to be nice. As a result of I did that for any individual, and the suspension-corrected geometry and the fork angle and stuff made it in order that I’m leaning on my palms sufficient that I wanted suspension.

However after I was on the bikes that had the entrance wheel out in entrance, shifting my palms nearer, my palms larger, I don’t fairly want it. That is even on the outdated bikes, like this outdated Chinese language bike I’ve is like that. The bars are so shut, you may go forward and simply leap a curb with this factor and there’s no affect in your hand since you’re standing up, sort of.

Merlin finally wasn’t capable of actually sustain. Not that I used to be promoting so many, it’s simply they couldn’t make stuff very quick and there was some high quality points, however at a sure level they simply shut down primarily. So then I’m sitting there going, “Properly, I’ve these, like, six frames left.” However one factor I discovered after I was at GT was they despatched me off to Taiwan as a result of I used to be good at doing the standard management and making issues proper within the California plant, so why can’t I simply go over there and try this and ensure there’s sufficient grease within the backside brackets and and that they’re packaging them accurately or simply that every little thing is excellent?

[Long wheelbase short reach inspiration, Jones Bikes YouTube]

Efficiency

I wish to go quick. I wish to not crash. I need prime degree efficiency. I need one of the best traction, the bottom rolling resistance, one of the best braking so I can cease in a brief distance. If we’re doing like a “Automobile and Monitor”-or-whatever-that-magazine check on bikes and we’re testing: How onerous can this bike take a flip? How brief can it make a cease from 30 miles an hour? How steep of an incline can it go up? How onerous is it to endo? All this stuff. I need it to be one of the best for that. It was sort of onerous as a result of my prospects have hassle with this and I had hassle with it, which is making a change. You’re driving a sure approach perpetually, and I’m attempting to alter myself and get on this place as a result of I might–you simply use logic. It’s like, effectively if I’m flipping over the bars, possibly I must get my weight again.

After which I might say to myself, all these items everybody says, it’s like, “Properly, however this place makes bikes climb.” Folks would say issues like, “Brief chainstays make a motorbike climb up, interval. Steep seat angle is healthier for climbing, interval.” However the factor is, it’s not like that. It’s a mix of all this stuff and people issues are solely true in case you say we’re at all times ranging from what a regular mountain bike is, which is it’s a hybrid, a bit like a cruiser and a street bike geometry pushed collectively. So, I simply began altering it as a result of clearly my palms harm if I’m in a traditional place. So I removed that. I knew BMX bikes labored, I used to experience slightly grime bikes and stuff after I was a child, I had a minibike and a YZ80 after I was younger.

And I knew in bikes, whenever you have a look at them, they’ve the handlebars behind the steering axis. And I’ve heard lots of people complain to me or argue and debate that: “A part of the issue with Jones bars is your palms might be behind the steering axis and this may actually screw up the geometry as a result of it’s simply not speculated to be like this. Your palms are behind the headset cap.” However that’s how just about all motorbike are. So then I simply began altering it, and since I may make this stuff for myself and I like attempting out stuff like that, I did it after which simply stored altering issues. And I attempted to remain true to pure operate, no style, solely that, “Does this make it work higher?” I don’t care what it seems like. I truly didn’t prefer it in a approach–I didn’t thoughts–however I didn’t prefer it when folks would speak about my bike prefer it’s inventive and flowing and it’s so stunning. Nice. That’s advantageous. It was simply final efficiency.

[Rock Shox RS-1, 1989]

Suspension

If I hit bumps and I’ve fatter tires, now my palms don’t harm and I don’t even want shocks. Now I’ve a motorbike that doesn’t dive and rock and pop all over. After I first rode suspension bikes at GT, I began on a inflexible mountain bike, after which I bought the primary RS-1 shock, and I believed that was nice as a result of my palms have been hurting on my outdated 26-inch bike in ’88. After which after I rode the primary suspension bike, or not less than the primary ones I had, I believed, “This was fairly neat. It’s fairly delicate. However boy, this bike has misplaced all types of emotions. It’s like a rocking horse. It’s all squishy.” And so they mentioned, “Don’t fear that I’ll go away and we’re going to dial that out. It’s going to finally be good.”

However the factor is our pedaling is so sluggish in comparison with an electrical motor or a fuel engine. I actually like a non-suspension bike quite a bit as a result of it was what I used to experience and after I rode BMX, it’d leap off loading docks, no suspension. After which I learn in {a magazine}, “When you’re driving this path, you’ve bought to have not less than eight inches of journey.” And I’m pondering, “I used to experience a 26-inch wheel bike on that stuff.” However some folks suppose that’s like retro and I’m searching for ache. That’s not it. It’s truly extra comfy.

Additionally, I take advantage of wider rims with the broader tires, and huge rims mixed with huge tires allow you to go to decrease strain as a result of with skinny rims you find yourself with the tires flopping round after which you need to improve the strain. And the tires can soak up the excessive frequency stuff almost instantaneously as a result of we’re simply coping with 30 grams of rubber that has to flex up and down a half inch because it slams slightly rock. Whereas with a suspension system, now you’re saying, “Okay, the entire wheel has to go up, and the suspension linkage has to maneuver and the oil has to maneuver and it has to return down.”

However in case you’re hitting these items, it’s such a excessive frequency, like driving over a washboard at pace. An enormous tire goes to present you a smoother experience in an upright place. And in addition completely different hand positions, since you get caught in a single place on a regular basis, it places a variety of strain on the skin fringe of your hand. That’s why you’ve gotten ergonomic grips and gloves with gel on the sting. I imply, to me, that’s an indication that there’s one thing fallacious proper there.

[Some bike website that compares identical mountain bikes, I dunno.]

The Bike Media

“How are you going to probably say that not having suspension is extra comfy than having suspension? It’s unimaginable. It simply can’t be carried out.”

I had {a magazine} editor inform me as soon as when he was reviewing my bike how he was descending this one part quicker and extra confidently on my bike than he does on any of the suspension bikes that he rides. And he’s telling me all these items. I mentioned, “Oh, you’re going to say this in your evaluate, proper?”

After which he mentioned, “Oh, yeah. Oh no, I liked it. However my editor would take that out as a result of you may’t say that; it’ll piss folks off.” And naturally, they’ve corporations, what would they are saying? As a result of we’ve to maintain it that approach, {that a} non-suspension bike is retro. In actual fact–what was it, a pair years in the past or a yr in the past–there have been all these articles in several magazines on the similar time in regards to the revival of the hardtail. After which they speak about hardtails and full-suspension and the historical past of the mountain bikes. A few of them simply utterly ignored the truth that there are [still] bikes with out suspension, even whereas I used to be attempting to speak about all this.

However I find it irresistible. And now gravel bikes have been round for some time and right here they’re off-road, able to all-terrain, all of the roads with 35-millimeter tires and no suspension. It’s so bizarre.

Letting Go Of The Previous

You like to experience for the experience, then attempt to get one of the best experience. Simply take into consideration these items as a result of it is smart and all I get are individuals who, after they get the bike, it finally ends up being higher than they suppose. And even in case you’re desirous about simply placing larger tires by yourself bike or extra upright, nearer place, it makes a giant distinction. And there’s no rule on the market the place hastily your kneecap goes to lock and also you received’t have the ability to pedal now as a result of your muscle groups aren’t aligned accurately. The entire leaned-over factor is all for aerodynamics and also you’re not sprinting. Everybody is aware of what to do, however they’re ready for… I’ve to persuade them and inform them it’s okay.

I bought a greater perspective of this after I was taking a look at one in all my outdated historic bike books and it had an image of two younger males and two older gents in 1910 or one thing, casually leaning up on a grass hill on the facet of the grime street as a result of they’re in the course of a experience. And the older guys are driving high-wheelers, they don’t have any bearings and no pneumatic tires. The youthful guys have pneumatic tires and so they’re driving safeties and so they most likely have ball bearings. I used to be amazed to learn that individuals used to say, when bearings got here out, that they have been sluggish and that we must always all keep on with oil, bronze and leather-based bushings. And so folks would complain about every little thing. So when the security got here out, everybody’s identical to, “Oh, no, actual males would by no means experience that.” So, in case you have been cool again then, you didn’t begin driving security; solely nerds and weak safety-conscious folks would experience these. The true males have been nonetheless on the excessive wheel bikes till, in a short time after all, in the true racing world the security bikes overtook them.

A number of my prospects at all times thought they have been horrible riders. After which they get one in all my bikes and so they name me up and so they’re saying, “Jeff, I’m going up on the mountains behind my home. I’ve by no means been up there earlier than. I’ve lived right here for 30 years. I’ve by no means gone up there. It’s stunning and it’s enjoyable. I went across the nook and my again wheel slid and I wasn’t scared. I simply corrected it and I simply stored going.”

And I’m like, “Yeah, that’s it.

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